Friday, October 23, 2020
Mitochondrial Health

#98 – Peter Attia, M.D. and Paul Grewal, M.D.: Coronavirus (COVID-19) FAQ

On this episode, Dr. Paul Grewal, M.D. joins Peter to debate what they’ve realized previously week within the midst of the speedy modifications surrounding the COVID-19 pandemic. Their dialog touches on each optimism and uncertainty: actionable steps we will take to enhance the scenario with the understanding that it’s too late for viral containment. Particularly, Peter and Paul focus on some promising drug remedies, causes for isolating-behavior adoption, and what they’re personally instituting in their very own lives.  

Disclaimer: That is data correct as of March 13, 2020, when it was recorded.


We focus on:

  • When the gravity of Coronavirus (COVID-19) hit residence [04:30];
  • Hospitalization and ICU mattress area as a problem [8:15];
  • Pure historical past and pathology of COVID-19 [12:00];
  • Potential drug therapies [22:00];
  • How pondering has modified from containment to administration [30:00];
  • What Paul and Peter are doing [49:00];
  • What we find out about viral transmission [57:00]; and
  • extra

Present Notes

When the gravity of Coronavirus hit residence [04:30]

  • Mid-January a affected person began asking questions on journey and later that month a workforce analyst was assigned to gather data on coronavirus
  • Was not till mid-February that Peter realized coronavirus was not going to be contained and the world was not ready 
  • On March 6, Peter turned extra pessimistic – testing had not been rolled out and no massive Federal administration motion within the U.S. had been taken 

Determine 1. COVID-19 U.S. Circumstances. Picture credit score (The New York Times)

Hospitalization and ICU mattress area as a problem [8:15] 

  • Ro is on par with or increased than the flu however many circumstances have gone and stay to be undiagnosed
  • Italy taught us that it was the morbidity not the mortality price of the illness that’s grave
  • Morbidity is the % of sufferers which have a critical sickness requiring hospitalization after which from these sufferers who required elevated degree of care
  • In South Korea with a younger inhabitants and a fast response time, mortality was about 0.68%
  • Exterior of Wuhan, with preparedness, mortality was 1% 
  • Italy, by comparability, was as excessive as 6%

A again of the envelope calculation assuming …

  • New York state has 3,000 ICU beds at full capability (and assuming nobody else wants ICU mattress that’s not a coronavirus affected person; a beneficiant assumption) 
  • Taking a reported 421 recognized circumstances within the state, a 1.3x development price, 20% hospitalization (assuming all ICU bedspace)…
  • X= 13.6 days to ICU mattress failure (important capability) 

Assuming 5% of hospitalized folks want ICU beds… 

  • X=18.eight days to ICU mattress failure (important capability)

Pure historical past and pathology of COVID-19 [12:00]

  • What we all know is that the immune response doesn’t appear to be the important half right here. The important half is the cell that will get broken
    • SARS-CoV-2 makes use of the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 receptor, ACE2, for entry.

What system will get attacked first?

  • The receptor that SARS-CoV-2 makes use of to contaminate lung cells is more than likely ACE2, a cell-surface protein on cells within the kidney, blood vessels, coronary heart, and, importantly, lung AT2 alveolar epithelial cells
    • These AT2 cells are notably susceptible to viral an infection as a consequence of excessive ACE2 expression
    • Virus infects cells within the lungs referred to as pneumocytes and within the means of replicating, damages that cell 
    • Acute respiratory misery syndrome (ARDS) happens from profuse alveoli injury such that the lung fills with fluid or collapses
  • Those who contract COVID-19 and should be on respirators generally want mechanical air flow for upwards of 5 weeks
  • Heart problems appears to be a greater predictor of complication fairly than a lung or respiratory pre-existing illness
  • Some sufferers confirmed atypical signs, resembling diarrhea and vomiting
  • The GI manifestations are per the distribution of ACE2 receptors, which function entry factors for SARS-CoV-2, in addition to SARS-CoV-1, which causes SARS. The receptors are most plentiful within the cell membranes of lung AT2 cells, in addition to in enterocytes within the ileum and colon

Potential drug therapies [22:00]

Angiotensin II receptor blocker 

  • Initially, it was although that Angiotensin II receptor blockers may very well be an efficient therapy 
    • ARBs block the receptor to which the virus binds
    • However now it appears that evidently people on hypertensive medicine are literally extra inclined to the virus  
    • Present pondering is that these already on ARBs ought to stay on the medicine 
    • Analysis workforce is constant to have a look at case-control studies taking a look at hypertensive cohorts 

Kaletra and Chloroquine 

  • Research didn’t present medical endpoints however did present a lower in viral load
    • Mechanistically virus could also be inclined to chloroquine (modifications lysosomal PH)
    • Viral proteases is much like HIV replication so HIV medicines could also be avenues at the side of Chloroquine with no apparent hurt 


  • Repurposed from Ebola medical trial 
  • Utilized in therapy and as IV solely 

How pondering has modified from containment to administration [30:00]

  • Virus can not develop exponentially perpetually 
  • Ro or replicative quantity – in some unspecified time in the future can’t be maintained; when there are sufficient folks infective
  • Not an intrinsic property of virus – displays transmissibility and talent to entry new hosts
  • Exponential development strikes to exponential slowing 

Determine 2. When early intervention doesn’t occur, transmission accelerates and peaks previous to administration and/or unbiased lower in Ro. Image credit score:

  • Ro or replicative quantity – in some unspecified time in the future can’t be maintained; when there are sufficient folks infective
  • Not an intrinsic property of virus – displays transmissibility and talent to entry new hosts
  • Exponential development strikes to exponential slowing 
  • Circumstances exterior of China nonetheless have exponential curves with out passing inflection level
  • Some mannequin estimates like that in a UCSF press release, reported that 1.23 million Individuals will die from the virus over the subsequent 12-18 months
  • To place it in perspective: 2.8M Individuals died final 12 months in complete from varied sickness

Some unanswered questions …

What are some issues that must occur to ensure that the Ro to grow to be manageable? 

  • Goal: to scale back the variety of lives misplaced and scale back financial injury 
  • Technique: scale back the speed of unfold which decreases Ro; reduces lethality 
    • Scale back price of unfold by reducing social interplay 
    • Individuals taking the utmost quantity of distance and isolation that’s possible 
    • A triage system with a check that’s delicate 
    • A false-negative check is an enormous downside (doesn’t restrict the speed of unfold from that particular person)
    • We’d like a check that doesn’t give a excessive false-negative 
    • Polymerase chain response (PCR) checks are correct however we don’t know the place the virus is within the physique 

From a lethality perspective …

  • By decreasing the speed of unfold, the lethality will naturally lower 
  • We could have some efficient therapy or vaccine 
    • The disadvantage of convalescent serum requires infrastructure assist for apheresis 
    • 1:1 donor to sick recipient ratio 

Peter thinks that the most suitable choice to scale back lethality is to:

  1. Repurpose present medicine 
  2. Flatten the curve
    • Ensure healthcare staff and first responders will not be getting contaminated 
    • Purchase time for the system to construct capability (e.g., ICU beds)
    • The aim of containment is to “flatten the curve”, to decrease the height of the surge of demand that may hit healthcare suppliers. And to purchase time, in hopes a drug could be developed

What Paul and Peter are doing [49:00]

  • Peter instructed his mother and father to enter as a lot of quarantine as potential 
  • Will be capable of be taught from different nations like China who will be capable of reverse restrictions 
  • Will see if Ro re-increases or if it may stay underneath management 
  • Peter is self-quarantined
    • Optimizes his sleep 
    • Depends on his dietary supplements 
    • Workout routines day by day: zone 2, lifting, time-restricted feeding 
  • They each really feel extra optimistic than they had been per week in the past 

What we find out about viral transmission [57:00]

  • paper in regards to the mode of transmission taking a look at droplet, aerosol, surfaces
  • CoV-19 (SARS-2) may very well be detected in:
    • aerosols, as much as Three hours publish aerosolization
    • as much as four hours on copper
    • as much as 24 hours cardboard
    • as much as 2-Three days on plastic and chrome steel (13hr median half-life on metal; 16hr median half-life on plastic)
  • Cov-19 can survive higher exterior of the physique in comparison with HIV
  • Given what the paper suggests, hospitals could take into account closed-loop air flow if a affected person wants air flow help and maybe explains why mortality amongst healthcare staff is so excessive 


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